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Bionic Tech => 3.9/5.2/5.9 => Topic started by: magnumman on January 01, 2012, 08:56:56 PM



Title: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 01, 2012, 08:56:56 PM
Ok, Im thinking of slowly starting a build project around this cam ".566 intake .536 exhaust on 1.6 ration rocker, Duration 214 intake and 224 exhaust with a 108LSA". Cam Card---> http://s473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/pokeypennell/parts/?action=view&current=sept2010297.jpg

I'd like for all members to add their 2 cents and advice to help me build this. I'd like to keep this on the budget side as much as possible, if possible.

Im looking to a 408cid build to match the cam. I dont want to exceed 7000rpm and would like to get as much hp/tq as possible for a 2001 1500 Ram and still be able to drive it on the street.

Info I would like feedback on is:

oil pump
roller rockers
heads+head gaskets
connecting rods
pistons
bolts
crankshaft
crankshaft bearings
intake
stall converter
anything else?

As the build progresses, I will keep you all informed. But it hasn't even started yet. Im not an engine builder but I to plan to do all of the work myself with a few helping hands minus the machining.

Thanks, Chris



Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on January 02, 2012, 01:47:37 AM
what kind of hp/tq could you expect from something like that?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: ScojoDak on January 02, 2012, 05:59:49 AM
Valve springs and a tune.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on January 02, 2012, 06:11:01 AM
I didn't see the rocker ratio that the gross valve lift was advertised at,  but the cam card shows less lift than you typed; is the advertised lift on the card, at a lower rocker ratio than you list?  you said 1.6; RR for the old "LA" (pre magnum) was 1.5.  is that what the cam card is figuring on?    a common setup I see with magnums is a 1.7 RR.
cam card says 0.531" I  & 0.502" E.  

Engine assembly isn't "hard" at all to do; just attention to detail and measure everything; clearances and torque most critical among them.  and CLEAN. make sure all "machining dust" is totally out of the castings.  and parts used all matched to your goal;  this is where I have had the most issue; I have had a few engines sound great but were blah where they counted  that being in the performance end.  You aren't looking to build a race truck, ( are you?)  you want torque/power to get that heavy mass moving. in daily driving you say 7000 RPM; you probably wont even see 5000 RPM more times than you can count on one hand. (unless you swap to like a 6.13 gear or somethin crazy, haha funny)

 You needing a hand with the buildup/motor swap? (once you get started that is)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 02, 2012, 07:06:18 AM
Quote
I didn't see the rocker ratio that the gross valve lift was advertised at,  but the cam card shows less lift than you typed; is the advertised lift on the card, at a lower rocker ratio than you list?  you said 1.6; RR for the old "LA" (pre magnum) was 1.5.  is that what the cam card is figuring on?    a common setup I see with magnums is a 1.7 RR.
cam card says 0.531" I  & 0.502" E. 
Comp Cams typically calls out their specs on the card at the 1.5 rocker ratio and then you have to calulate what it would be at a 1.6 or 1.7 ratio from there.  Even though the cam card pic doesn't show the lobe lift, it should be there and you multiply the ratio by that.  I get so many concerned phone calls from people I've sold cams to wondering if they received the correct cam and I have to explain that.  I wish Comp Cams would call it out on the card.   :(


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: drewactual on January 02, 2012, 08:23:04 AM
I'm likely the least experienced with Magnum's here.. but this notion continuously runs through my head.. Forgive me for asking, but:

what are you pairing this to? Manual, or Auto? If auto, what TC are you considering? What gears will it be turned through? Are you looking for performance top end or monster low end torque?

I ask these things, because you're starting from the ground up- and you're doing it incredibly intelligently, which is to identify purpose first.. I wish like hell I would have done that, and I'm thinking I will ultimately end up starting all over- and doing it right..

so anyway, somebody feel absolutely free to tell me to STFU, but here is how I've come to think about building:

Truck- Purpose, weight, wheels/tires, DD or weekend warrior, top end for mud, low end for trailing, mid for all around..

drivetrain- gears matched to weight, purpose, wheel/tire combo for overall drive ratio, and matched a little lower to protect the auto transmission if'n that's what I've got.. Torque converter selected to match drive purpose and engine builds range (if auto)..

engine- purpose built, and in short: torque/HP range selected to compliment drivetrain (which was paired together to match purpose)..

I guess what I'm saying is: If you were to share the purpose you have intended for this build, not only can you better identify what direction- but I can also take advantage of your build specs, and learn some more stuff to help me in my own endeavors.. not to mention, help others too..

thanks- and, subscribed.. 



Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 02, 2012, 10:56:48 AM
Instead of quoting everything Im gonna try to answer everything above in this post.

Tune will be done by hemifever as I already have his "can tune".

I really dont have a hp/tq goal, I plan to build it correctly around the cam to get as much hp/tq as possible but keep it streetable. Im aware this cam will require stall converter and atleast 4.10:1 gears. Im running 3.92 gears now with a stock converter.

This a 2wd Ram so I dont have any mud worries or dreams. I just want a faster truck.

Don, I do hit 5300rpm quite often now. My trans shifts about then at WOT. I set a 7000rpm limit above because of parts costs, I doubt I'll ever see that. And yes I will likely need your help once assembly begins. Thanks for offering.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 02, 2012, 11:05:54 AM
I think that cam is going to pull some pretty good torque and mid-range in a 408, especially on a 108 LSA.  According to Comp Cams cam simulator, I would guess peak torque may be around 3800/4000 and peak HP around 5200/5400.  But it depends upon the level of modifications.   For instance, my 408 produced peak torque at 4000 and peak HP around 5500/5600, with a 220/230 on a 108 LSA, and it was running pretty rich. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on January 02, 2012, 03:16:40 PM
3;92>4:11 not enough difference I don't think, to matter. and "build around the cam"; I take it, that the cam's already bought huh??
Gonna build "your" motor or are you gonna buy a core to build and swap when finished building?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 02, 2012, 03:19:16 PM
3;92>4:11 not enough difference I don't think, to matter. and "build around the cam"; I take it, that the cam's already bought huh??
Gonna build "your" motor or are you gonna buy a core to build and swap when finished building?

Yea Ive had the cam for a while now. I'd like to build a core but I cant find one cheap enough.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on January 03, 2012, 03:24:11 AM
if you build it, they will come!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 03, 2012, 10:53:41 AM
Here's my humbles, won't comment unless i have a handle on it :

Oil pump: Melling high volume

roller rockers: adjustables in aluminum

heads+head gaskets: if no boost, get the felpro complete gasket kit from rock auto and save about $50.  For the heads, get something that'll feed that extra CI on a 408.  The 408 should definitely bangle 2.02 valves. The Eddies might be your best bet for bolt ons. Eddies will at least have the benefit of using a cheaper Chevy rocker arm on studs.

connecting rods:  I've read to stay away from eagle on several boards.

pistons: gotta decide whether it'll ever see boost or not, no boost go Hypers and around a 10.5 CR, but ask Sean where the sweet spot is for CR on pump gas available to you.

bolts: ARP bolts or studs depending on the HP output projected

crankshaft: see connecting rods comment.

crankshaft bearings:  i think "How to build big inch small block mopars" recommended clevites, and buying 2 sets and using the sides with oil grooves on both the top and bottom.

intake: M1

stall converter find out where its curve is and order one up from Wayne at APS, or better yet, Richard may have a deal with the guys that build those RAMZILLA transmissions.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 03, 2012, 11:02:24 AM
Thanks for the info Aim!

This is an NA build, No boost or spray. I guess I should of mentioned that in my first post.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on January 03, 2012, 01:22:21 PM
if I ever get working again I have a 98 318 block that I'd like to turn into a 390......good luck on this.
I have seen a few 360s recently popping up on CL. its kind of a hit or miss type situation on those.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on January 03, 2012, 01:48:15 PM
One thing i have been looking and hoping for is one of yous guys,chris/bill/marts(although hes overseas)dondon,richard,heck anyone of our bionic gurus,take a 340(gawd i lub those motors)and build one for our trucks with boring it out to like a 416 or so,i think personally that would be so much better than you're standard 360-408 build.A gent on another board(maybe on here as well lol) superdack,was building up a 340 block bored whole nine yards with maggy heads and intake but something ended up going wrong bye the builder and motah blew,Sorry end threadjack,,lol


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 03, 2012, 02:12:38 PM
One thing i have been looking and hoping for is one of yous guys,chris/bill/marts(although hes overseas)dondon,richard,heck anyone of our bionic gurus,take a 340(gawd i lub those motors)and build one for our trucks with boring it out to like a 416 or so,i think personally that would be so much better than you're standard 360-408 build.A gent on another board(maybe on here as well lol) superdack,was building up a 340 block bored whole nine yards with maggy heads and intake but something ended up going wrong bye the builder and motah blew,Sorry end threadjack,,lol

I was thinking about doing a 426 build with this. but the 408 pistons are much cheaper.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on January 04, 2012, 08:11:12 AM
426 w/ an SC! epic


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 04, 2012, 09:45:27 AM
I thought that the 426 was a hit or miss based on the individual block's strength, and perhaps not as reliable a 408 at higher rpms.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on January 04, 2012, 02:01:00 PM
I thought that the 426 was a hit or miss based on the individual block's strength, and perhaps not as reliable a 408 at higher rpms.

The few i have heard of and surviving was lynns,as the maggy blocks from my understanding cant take that much material out of the bores,as well as bottom ends(my understanding only)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on January 05, 2012, 03:06:11 AM
so what would be the way to go? 360 408?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 05, 2012, 07:14:43 PM
so what would be the way to go? 360 408?

Im going 408. Its been tried and works for most. The 426 sounds great but with the added parts costs, machining costs and block worries, I'll have to pass.

If I had an R3 block I'd go 476cid. haha


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 06, 2012, 04:12:31 AM
Yeah, I think the 408 with some big valve heads is the way to go, especially on a budget.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on January 06, 2012, 02:55:16 PM
Yeah, I think the 408 with some big valve heads is the way to go, especially on a budget.
even more then a 360 on a budget?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 06, 2012, 07:33:00 PM
Yeah, I think the 408 with some big valve heads is the way to go, especially on a budget.
even more then a 360 on a budget?

I think my cam is too much for a 360. The bigger 408 displacement should deal with the cam's longer duration better than a 360 could from what ive read and been told.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 07, 2012, 03:52:30 AM
I guess budget build is really determined by what Chris wants it to do.  If his budget 360 build would require a new bottom end, and a block reconditioning, then going 408 isn't honestly that much more to dump in for a significant gain in GO.

After tinkering with my truck, and changing my mind yearly, i think Chris is doing it right.  Plan it around the Performance pieces and then put it together.

"Cry Once" is my new motto.  I'm just waiting for that first payment...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 07, 2012, 06:12:53 AM
Quote
I think my cam is too much for a 360. The bigger 408 displacement should deal with the cam's longer duration better than a 360 could from what ive read and been told.
More cubes will definitely absorb cam duration.

Quote
I guess budget build is really determined by what Chris wants it to do.  If his budget 360 build would require a new bottom end, and a block reconditioning, then going 408 isn't honestly that much more to dump in for a significant gain in GO.
Exactly!  A 408 is basically a 4" stroker crank, pistons with a different piston pin offset, a .030 overbore, and a neutral balance flex plate and balancer. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on January 07, 2012, 09:12:24 AM
i do need to a build soon, i have a 5.9 with 185,xxx+ miles on it and its going to need a upgrade. I have a 5.9 w/ a 210x cam and i dont think it's nothing special, i mean it doesn't have that go fast feel. what other upgrades would be needed for a 408? do i need to upgrade the fuel pump & ect...?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on January 07, 2012, 09:22:37 AM
If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 07, 2012, 10:24:03 AM
If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...

I would need to start off with a 318 to get a 390


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: drewactual on January 07, 2012, 10:29:40 AM
If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...

I would need to start off with a 318 to get a 390

well, not really.. but if you went to a 390 from a 360 (using the same block) the 390 would be considerably more expensive than the 408..
you're doing it right...... and, I'm jealous..

over on dodgeforum, there is a thread in the second gen ram section where a member named Matt detailed his build.. it was a very good thread.. if you haven't seen it, and want a link- I can try to dig it up for you..

I don't know what purpose he was building for, but he had one mean engine coming together.. he wrecked his rig before he installed it.. he's selling it for $7.5k iirc.. If i had the change, I would drop it in a heartbeat.. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on January 07, 2012, 01:26:14 PM
If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...

I would need to start off with a 318 to get a 390

Ok here's where i get a lil confused about boring cylinders and such,but isnt a 360 bored 30 with  simply turned 10/10 stock crank equal to a 390?

If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...

\








Matt=aim4squirrels matt?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 07, 2012, 02:08:57 PM
No.  Boring the cylinder walls .030" over the standard sized bore won't net you an extra 30 cubic inches of displacement.

It all depends on the diameter of the initial cylinder bore, but a standard overbore only nets a small single digit gain in cubic inch displacement.

Increasing the face of the piston a few thousandths of an inch doesn't net you the same gains as moving the entire piston 1/2" to 3/4" more up and down the cylinder.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 07, 2012, 02:44:52 PM
Quote
No.  Boring the cylinder walls .030" over the standard sized bore won't net you an extra 30 cubic inches of displacement.

It all depends on the diameter of the initial cylinder bore, but a standard overbore only nets a small single digit gain in cubic inch displacement.
Correct.  A standard bore 4.00 stroker is 402 ci and a .030 overbore (4.03) is 408 ci, so the net gain is 6ci.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 07, 2012, 07:48:30 PM

A stock rebuild with a stock crank bored .030 over would be a 366cid. And as Richard said: the 402 bored .030 over is a 408.

Deeznuts, You now got me thinking. I was re-reading the book "How to build Big Inch Mopar small blocks" and it says its safest to bore a stroker Mopar 360 at .020 over because .030 over makes the cylinder walls too thin. My motor has 197,000 miles on it and I wouldn't mind making a 402cid with the stock pistons/stock rods as they are forged and buying new rings if the cylinder walls clean up perfectly. I don't need to add oil between changes currently, maybe thats an option?

What do you guys think?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 08, 2012, 12:59:39 AM
The stock rods will work with some rework.  However, if you want a floating pin, and not pressed in, then there is more work bushing the rods, and you might want to compare that cost with a less expensive Eagle or Scat I-beam rod.  A stock rod should also use stronger rod bolts such as ARP.  The stroker pistons have a different pin off-set than the stock piston so you have to use a stroker piston.  I would go std bore if you can get away with it or .020 to leave some meat in the cylinder walls.  However, the most cost effective piston is typically a .030 overbore.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on January 08, 2012, 01:39:59 PM

A stock rebuild with a stock crank bored .030 over would be a 366cid. And as Richard said: the 402 bored .030 over is a 408.

Deeznuts, You now got me thinking. I was re-reading the book "How to build Big Inch Mopar small blocks" and it says its safest to bore a stroker Mopar 360 at .020 over because .030 over makes the cylinder walls too thin. My motor has 197,000 miles on it and I wouldn't mind making a 402cid with the stock pistons/stock rods as they are forged and buying new rings if the cylinder walls clean up perfectly. I don't need to add oil between changes currently, maybe thats an option?

What do you guys think?


Glad i helped out in someway lol,im no expert and most time im talking out of my a&*,but you guys know that anyway lol,but ty for helping me understanding a little bit more i guess as to what boring out in fact truly equals...Knew i shld have stayed in shop class lol..


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 10, 2012, 04:22:05 PM
I got my crankshaft today. SCAT. From our sponsor Richard/Hi-Potek ----> http://stores.hi-potek.com/StoreFront.bok


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: hookbone on January 10, 2012, 04:54:03 PM
I like doin business with him! :D


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 10, 2012, 09:05:45 PM
I like doin business with him! :D
I agree.  IMHO, He's the most honest guy in the Mopar parts business!

____________________________________________________________________________

Pistons and connecting rods might be a paycheck or two/four away depending on Overtime. So lets here everyones opinions on these, I got Aim4squirrels/98Dak408's opinions so far any others? Keep in mind "Made in USA" if possible...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 11, 2012, 02:43:16 AM
He needs to carry more 6.1L stuff, LOL!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 11, 2012, 06:58:20 AM
Quote
He needs to carry more 6.1L stuff, LOL!
LOL  I can get that stuff.  I just don't have it listed at this point in time.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 12, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
Ok, I got a couple opinions on rods and pistons and bearings. Lets hear some more, whats good/bad and whats working for you. Although this is a budget build I will pay to stay away from issues. So lets hear them.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 13, 2012, 09:22:15 PM
Ok, I got a couple opinions on rods and pistons and bearings. Lets hear some more, whats good/bad and whats working for you. Although this is a budget build I will pay to stay away from issues. So lets hear them.

Bump Bump Bump


Also need opinions on oil pickups for a stock pan.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 14, 2012, 02:57:37 PM
I believe the stock oil pickup tube is more than up to the task.  I have heard of guys opening up the oval on the bottom a bit, but i don't know how much that actually helps.  The entrance into the tube is already a larger diameter than the tube, so i don't know how much more you can really get up there.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 15, 2012, 05:32:59 AM
I've been running my engine pretty hard and I am just using the Eagle cast crank, Eagle I-beam rods, and hypereutectic pistons, without any issues.  Since you already have the Scat crank, you may want to go with the Scat I-beam rods.  Clevite 77 or Federal Mogul bearings should be fine.  While the hypereutectic pistons are working fine for me, I now wish I had gone forged.  The reason being is they are easier to machine for valve reliefs and the hypereutectic are very difficult to machine due to the high silica content.  I may find I have enough valve-to-piston clearance with a larger cam, but if not, I’ve either got to spend more money on a smaller cam, put the cam I am now running back in, or swap out the pistons and rebalance everything.  The Icon pistons are reasonable I think.  The stock pan pick up should be fine.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 15, 2012, 10:57:48 AM
Oh yeah Chris,

I have a hardened shaft distributor and pump gear that I'd sell to you for$40 + the shipping if you're interested.  I bought it from Richard and never got it installed before i sold the truck.  It's brand new, i just ripped open the container to check it to be sure it was right, but since its a Mopar piece, wouldn't ask Richard to take it back as he can't sell it as new.

I'll give you first dibs an then throw it up in the parts section if you don't want it.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 15, 2012, 11:15:04 AM
Oh yeah Chris,

I have a hardened shaft distributor and pump gear that I'd sell to you for$40 + the shipping if you're interested.  I bought it from Richard and never got it installed before i sold the truck.  It's brand new, i just ripped open the container to check it to be sure it was right, but since its a Mopar piece, wouldn't ask Richard to take it back as he can't sell it as new.

I'll give you first dibs an then throw it up in the parts section if you don't want it.


I'll send you a PM tomorrow night. Thanks


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 20, 2012, 07:03:55 PM
Oh yeah Chris,

I have a hardened shaft distributor and pump gear that I'd sell to you for$40 + the shipping if you're interested.  I bought it from Richard and never got it installed before i sold the truck.  It's brand new, i just ripped open the container to check it to be sure it was right, but since its a Mopar piece, wouldn't ask Richard to take it back as he can't sell it as new.

I'll give you first dibs an then throw it up in the parts section if you don't want it.

I sent you another PM


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 21, 2012, 04:09:45 AM
I got it, you're good to go!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 23, 2012, 08:38:45 PM
Does anyone have head gasket recommendations? This engine will likely see No boost or spray.

Also if anyone knows the compressed thickness of such gaskets, that would help too.

Thanks.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 24, 2012, 04:33:39 AM
Quote
Does anyone have head gasket recommendations? This engine will likely see No boost or spray.

Also if anyone knows the compressed thickness of such gaskets, that would help too.

Thanks.
You really need to take into account the combustion chamber size (cc) and piston dome volume, for instance, and then try to figure which gasket might best suit that arrangement.  Low cost options may be limited with a 408 stroker piston.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on January 24, 2012, 02:18:13 PM
Agreed,

From what I understand .035" of quench (or squish) is just about the theoretical best one could hope for.

Your over bore to get to 408 will negate stock gaskets.  There's a thinner head gasket felpro 1008 that has a hell of a lot of ring room that compresses to .039".   Mancini used to carry them, don't know it they still do.  If you had flat topped pistons with a true zero deck and enough piston to valve clearance to run your cam, you'd be dang near perfect.  The piston could have pockets for the valves of course, what your looking for is the distance between the highest point on the piston under the flat area of the head called the quench or squish pad.  That's the place in the head that's flat right where the two curves come to a point.

If you run domed pistons to increase compression that could change things.  You would need to know the height of the area under the squish to choose the correct gasket.  No squish, even with enough piston to valve clearance, would be bad.

Now, theoretical best quench, may not be best for compression ratio either.  You might need to go a bit thicker to drop CR to run the pump gas.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 25, 2012, 07:04:32 PM
Thanks guys thats some great info!!!

I was looking at these pistons..... http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=2&partid=10462

It says machining required for optimum quench? Plus I want to make sure these dont smack my valves.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 26, 2012, 06:20:13 AM
Quote
Thanks guys thats some great info!!!

I was looking at these pistons..... http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=2&partid=10462

It says machining required for optimum quench? Plus I want to make sure these dont smack my valves.
Yes that piston will require machining for the closed chamber head.  I am running those on my engine.  I just checked and Hughes now offers a hypereutectic piston with no machining required for the closed chamber Magnum head.  It is the following part:  http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=2&partid=26380


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 26, 2012, 08:54:44 PM
Quote
Thanks guys thats some great info!!!

I was looking at these pistons..... http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=2&partid=10462

It says machining required for optimum quench? Plus I want to make sure these dont smack my valves.
Yes that piston will require machining for the closed chamber head.  I am running those on my engine.  I just checked and Hughes now offers a hypereutectic piston with no machining required for the closed chamber Magnum head.  It is the following part:  http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=2&partid=26380


Thanks for that link Richard! I like the Idea of doing as little machining as possible, I guess it would be worth the extra $50 for the pistons that don't require machining. But that extra $50 puts a difference of about $100 from getting Forged pistons. I'll have to think about this dilemma.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on January 27, 2012, 05:06:30 AM
Decisions, decisions...  :)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 08, 2012, 07:49:11 PM
Since I called this a budget build Im gonna go with these pistons----> http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2sgTWFnbnVtICgzLjkvNS4yLzUuOSk=&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=2&partid=26380 , Plus the scat I beam rods.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on February 09, 2012, 04:01:04 AM
Noticed the hughes site is basing CR's on the Felpro 1008 gasket compressed thickness of .039", be mindful of that when calculating.

They appear plenty deep to run an aggressive cam... that 58cc chamber size CR list on the hughes site is the chamber size of the edelbrock heads.  62-64cc is right around stock.

Getting excited for you Chris!  You're making me want to stroke out my Challenger already, LOL.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 09, 2012, 08:02:45 PM
Noticed the hughes site is basing CR's on the Felpro 1008 gasket compressed thickness of .039", be mindful of that when calculating.

They appear plenty deep to run an aggressive cam... that 58cc chamber size CR list on the hughes site is the chamber size of the edelbrock heads.  62-64cc is right around stock.

Getting excited for you Chris!  You're making me want to stroke out my Challenger already, LOL.

Thanks Matt

I may need to go to a thicker head gasket to lower the CR, but so far im planning on the 62cc RHS heads which will lower it a bit more.

Get your Challenger project going, Im sure everyone would like to see what you could make that thing do.



Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on February 10, 2012, 08:51:51 AM
Gotta pay off the home A/C unit that went to pot last year.  Until that's paid off, the only mods I'll be doing is the Mr. Miyagi Mod (wax on, wax off).

I pick up a lightly used catch can and a newer IAT sensor for it with the change in my couch...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 15, 2012, 09:26:07 PM
Got my new stroker pistons :D from Richards website!

http://stores.hi-potek.com/StoreFront.bok




Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on February 16, 2012, 08:42:01 AM
Agreed,

From what I understand .035" of quench (or squish) is just about the theoretical best one could hope for.

Your over bore to get to 408 will negate stock gaskets.  There's a thinner head gasket felpro 1008 that has a hell of a lot of ring room that compresses to .039".   Mancini used to carry them, don't know it they still do. 

why? we are only talking 0.030" over.

and Chris; you were asking me about balance the other nite; I believe those cranks are designed for internal balance as a stock 318 is set up,  but you are mixing and matching non stock parts, so I would say it's gonna have to be balanced by the machine shop. not something youre gonna be able to get away with "not" doing.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on February 16, 2012, 09:43:10 AM
Quote
and Chris; you were asking me about balance the other nite; I believe those cranks are designed for internal balance as a stock 318 is set up,  but you are mixing and matching non stock parts, so I would say it's gonna have to be balanced by the machine shop. not something youre gonna be able to get away with "not" doing.
Yes, you should get the rotating assembly balanced once you have all the parts.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 16, 2012, 11:15:35 AM
I figured, unfortunetly Langs doesn't do balancing so I may look for a shop that can do the boring and balancing.

Im doing .030 over because the parts are cheaper and more readily available.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on February 16, 2012, 01:29:03 PM
I figured, unfortunetly Langs doesn't do balancing so I may look for a shop that can do the boring and balancing.

Im doing .030 over because the parts are cheaper and more readily available.
not Albers..... unless you have a bottomless bank account.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on February 16, 2012, 06:12:48 PM
Its been a while, but i don't recall the stock gaskets having much in the way of excess fire ring clearance

 
Agreed,

From what I understand .035" of quench (or squish) is just about the theoretical best one could hope for.

Your over bore to get to 408 will negate stock gaskets.  There's a thinner head gasket felpro 1008 that has a hell of a lot of ring room that compresses to .039".   Mancini used to carry them, don't know it they still do. 

why? we are only talking 0.030" over.

and Chris; you were asking me about balance the other nite; I believe those cranks are designed for internal balance as a stock 318 is set up,  but you are mixing and matching non stock parts, so I would say it's gonna have to be balanced by the machine shop. not something youre gonna be able to get away with "not" doing.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 17, 2012, 08:06:02 PM
Its been a while, but i don't recall the stock gaskets having much in the way of excess fire ring clearance

 
Agreed,

From what I understand .035" of quench (or squish) is just about the theoretical best one could hope for.

Your over bore to get to 408 will negate stock gaskets.  There's a thinner head gasket felpro 1008 that has a hell of a lot of ring room that compresses to .039".   Mancini used to carry them, don't know it they still do. 

why? we are only talking 0.030" over.

and Chris; you were asking me about balance the other nite; I believe those cranks are designed for internal balance as a stock 318 is set up,  but you are mixing and matching non stock parts, so I would say it's gonna have to be balanced by the machine shop. not something youre gonna be able to get away with "not" doing.

Does anyone have the compressed diameter of a stock sized felpro gasket? Just curious. If I can lower the CR as compared to the 1008 gasket, It should make it more streetable and tuneable.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on February 18, 2012, 09:31:02 AM
I have heard that you can order gaskets to whatever bore size you need right from FelPro, I have heard guys talk about going to the factory and being essentially taken on a tour of it and where the factory workers have said somnething about that;

That said if you look at the tech data for the gasket that you are considering they often post the bore diameter.
I have seen Smallblock gaskets with bore diameters of 4.060 and higher, so you should be able to come up with something w/o too  much headache.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on February 18, 2012, 02:31:30 PM
thicker than a standard- http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CGT-C5633-075/
cometic i would trust and they have a wide range of gaskets to choose from. the bore dia is not ususaly an issue.
thicker yet- http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CGT-C5565-120/
stock compression is based on a crushed gasket at .045 - .040.. you may need someone to help you calculate the ration again. summit couldnt do it correctly. keep in mind, thicker gaskets will enlarge the quench area.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 18, 2012, 07:03:19 PM
Thanks for the info!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on February 19, 2012, 02:10:13 PM
am i really a help?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 19, 2012, 06:58:36 PM
am i really a help?

Of course! I invited everyone to help with this build.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on February 20, 2012, 07:34:48 AM
lol we are helping,for instance i dont know what im doing  so chris uses my expansive and vast experience to know what not to do...lol


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 20, 2012, 09:27:13 PM
lol we are helping,for instance i dont know what im doing  so chris uses my expansive and vast experience to know what not to do...lol

Trust me, I have many of those moments... haha


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on February 21, 2012, 05:41:44 AM
lol we are helping,for instance i dont know what im doing  so chris uses my expansive and vast experience to know what not to do...lol

Trust me, I have many of those moments... haha

lol,chris i may have missed it(adhd) but did you decide on what cam you're going to run,and heads?I know its a budget build,but i got to say those rhs heads have really grown on me with the 2.02-1.60,definetly would love to hear some rumble,(i love when we upgrade cams,and you can tell the vehicle is actually camming)lol,,while i do know there is some comprimises with running a big cam(low vac,tuneabilty,so on and so forth).newho,back to you're reguarly scheduled program lol...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 21, 2012, 12:29:45 PM
The cam is listed on the first page of this topic. I think I'm gonna go with the RHS heads, I'm not 100% sure yet though


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 11, 2012, 08:23:41 PM
Sorry the Bionic Build has been put on hold for a little bit. As I have incurred a "few" medical bills since this build started.

My Daughter: Had to have her tonsils, adnoids out and ear tubes installed.

My Son:  Was hit in the forehead by my daughter with a steel bucket causing 7 stitches. "My son is still very proud that he got to go to school with stitches"...Bragging Rights!


ME:   I tripped on my top of my sleeping dog laying on the floor and he chewed my hand up at about 2am, there was really nothing to stitch as the wounds were to big but I had to make sure the fingers weren't broken. It wasn't the dogs fault but the hospital reported it to the Health Dept. which incurred vet bills for observation and rabies check, I don't understand why this was needed but they were gonna put him down if I didn't cooperate. I even told the heath Dept. that I had a valid FOID card and will shoot any trespassers "over the top on my part", then they had the police stop over to make me comply.

This all happened within 14 days and everyone that I insure has met there deductable and its only March.....Geez!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Trav1s on March 12, 2012, 02:09:42 AM
Oy!   Life has been rough to you.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on March 12, 2012, 02:49:56 AM
Wow!   That sucks!  Anyway, look forward to the progression as you are able.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on March 12, 2012, 03:47:54 AM
No worries chris,,sides i havent ever seen a full build that was finished in a cple weeks.Sorry bought teh fam and hope all is well.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Richie on March 12, 2012, 06:08:19 AM
That was a mouthful of stuff in a short period. It seems to go that way for some reason, I was in the same boat last year.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 12, 2012, 06:04:52 PM
Everyones doing well thanks for the comments. Either Richard or myself will fire this topic back up as Im getting most of my important parts from him anyway. haha

Or, if anyone has comments or advice on how the build should go chime in anytime. Its a Bionic build so every one should have their 2 cents in there.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on April 14, 2012, 04:32:07 AM
Bump,,i think i look so forward too seeing everyones build come together,because i was never able to complete mine..Whats teh latest bud..


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on April 14, 2012, 10:14:34 AM
Bump,,i think i look so forward too seeing everyones build come together,because i was never able to complete mine..Whats teh latest bud..

Im holding off on the parts buying until probably June/July because of all the crap going on at work.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on April 24, 2012, 04:05:17 PM
If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...

I would need to start off with a 318 to get a 390
I know where there's a couple 318s at....
Speaking of which did you ever find anything on a US (or even Canadian) made Stroker crank?  My son wants to stroke one of my 318s, build a 390 to replace a dog of a 360 in his Ramcharger....

your own dog bit ya.... mine would have just slobbered all over ya......


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on April 24, 2012, 04:56:12 PM
If its truly a budget build a 390 would seem  to me to be more of a budget minding and could possibly handle the biiger camshaft,either way you're def gonna have to build it with a nice torque output to get these pigs going lol...

I would need to start off with a 318 to get a 390
I know where there's a couple 318s at....
Speaking of which did you ever find anything on a US (or even Canadian) made Stroker crank?  My son wants to stroke one of my 318s, build a 390 to replace a dog of a 360 in his Ramcharger....

your own dog bit ya.... mine would have just slobbered all over ya......

The closest thing to a USA made crank is scat, Their cast in china and machined in Illinois. Eagle is cast and machined in china.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Rattler on April 25, 2012, 07:45:36 AM
One thing i have been looking and hoping for is one of yous guys,chris/bill/marts(although hes overseas)dondon,richard,heck anyone of our bionic gurus,take a 340(gawd i lub those motors)and build one for our trucks with boring it out to like a 416 or so,i think personally that would be so much better than you're standard 360-408 build.A gent on another board(maybe on here as well lol) superdack,was building up a 340 block bored whole nine yards with maggy heads and intake but something ended up going wrong bye the builder and motah blew,Sorry end threadjack,,lol

360,s are good blocks.  The biggest problem is the don't make enough speed parts for them particularly heads.  If you want to go 416 or how about a SB 426 Mopar has siamese 4 bolt main "R" blocks for sale that you can bore and stroke out to 426.  All it takes is $$$$


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on April 25, 2012, 07:50:28 AM
One thing i have been looking and hoping for is one of yous guys,chris/bill/marts(although hes overseas)dondon,richard,heck anyone of our bionic gurus,take a 340(gawd i lub those motors)and build one for our trucks with boring it out to like a 416 or so,i think personally that would be so much better than you're standard 360-408 build.A gent on another board(maybe on here as well lol) superdack,was building up a 340 block bored whole nine yards with maggy heads and intake but something ended up going wrong bye the builder and motah blew,Sorry end threadjack,,lol

360,s are good blocks.  The biggest problem is the don't make enough speed parts for them particularly heads.  If you want to go 416 or how about a SB 426 Mopar has siamese 4 bolt main "R" blocks for sale that you can bore and stroke out to 426.  All it takes is $$$$

Gotcha brother,I've seen a ton of (R) builds with the w5 i wanna say heads,heck we got a guy on here now thats building a twin turboed professionally built motah.trans and truck,speaking of which Hey ken you need to speeak up round here more lol been quiet without yahs..


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on April 25, 2012, 03:26:52 PM
strange; the kid came home last nite saying he had a sudden mysterious knock in his 360  coincidentally he also got a call from a former teacher that has a motorhome thats coming apart and asked the kid if he wanted a 440...  I got some news for the kid;  I aint puttin no 440 in his truck;  I may stick a 318 in there so he can drive it for the time being (I have a couple of those) and that would free him up a 360 to build  (the one in it now) if he stays SB, he wants a stroker....
thing is if he does a 318 it will be magnum based if he does his 360 it will be a roller cam LA block.
I listened to it and didnt hear nothin but an exh manifold leak....
I almost wish it would go to pot though, because that particular 360 has to be the biggest dog I have ever seen.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on April 25, 2012, 06:07:27 PM
strange; the kid came home last nite saying he had a sudden mysterious knock in his 360  coincidentally he also got a call from a former teacher that has a motorhome thats coming apart and asked the kid if he wanted a 440...  I got some news for the kid;  I aint puttin no 440 in his truck;  I may stick a 318 in there so he can drive it for the time being (I have a couple of those) and that would free him up a 360 to build  (the one in it now) if he stays SB, he wants a stroker....
thing is if he does a 318 it will be magnum based if he does his 360 it will be a roller cam LA block.
I listened to it and didnt hear nothin but an exh manifold leak....
I almost wish it would go to pot though, because that particular 360 has to be the biggest dog I have ever seen.

I know a guy that will take the 440.........  ME!
I dont know what I'd put it in but I could find a use for it Im sure.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on April 26, 2012, 02:05:40 PM
A 440 in a rango would be awesum!!!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on April 27, 2012, 01:34:03 PM
strange; the kid came home last nite saying he had a sudden mysterious knock in his 360  coincidentally he also got a call from a former teacher that has a motorhome thats coming apart and asked the kid if he wanted a 440...  I got some news for the kid;  I aint puttin no 440 in his truck;  I may stick a 318 in there so he can drive it for the time being (I have a couple of those) and that would free him up a 360 to build  (the one in it now) if he stays SB, he wants a stroker....
thing is if he does a 318 it will be magnum based if he does his 360 it will be a roller cam LA block.
I listened to it and didnt hear nothin but an exh manifold leak....
I almost wish it would go to pot though, because that particular 360 has to be the biggest dog I have ever seen.

I know a guy that will take the 440.........  ME!
I dont know what I'd put it in but I could find a use for it Im sure.


Not sayin i couldnt put it to use just that I dont want it in my 19 yo kid's truck!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on April 27, 2012, 01:35:41 PM
A 440 in a rango would be awesum!!!

probably wouldnt be any worse on fuel;  and I thought electronics and black boxes were supposed to solve all that....
I got a 78 Fury and an 80 Volare  either of which might be worthwhile recipients..


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on April 27, 2012, 02:30:24 PM
A 440 in a rango would be awesum!!!

probably wouldnt be any worse on fuel;  and I thought electronics and black boxes were supposed to solve all that....
I got a 78 Fury and an 80 Volare  either of which might be worthwhile recipients..

You and your little black boxes lol...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on April 27, 2012, 06:03:00 PM
Hey Don, that 440 would be awesome in your Volare!!!!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 13, 2013, 06:54:39 PM
Back from the Dead! I have started buying parts again for this build.

I got some Scat Rods and Clevite Rod bearings coming from Richard at Hipotek.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: hemifever on February 14, 2013, 03:11:27 PM
keep working it!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on February 15, 2013, 02:51:07 AM
Yeah man!  Bit-by-bit and you'll be there.   8)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 27, 2013, 07:55:51 PM
4 Barrel mopar intake with 2 barrel adapter purchased-------------->  http://stores.hi-potek.com/-strse-57/Mopar-Performance-Single-Plane/Detail.bok

Baby Steps......


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 04, 2013, 09:38:00 AM
Sure is pretty!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 04, 2013, 06:44:38 PM
Ok, my current TB is HipoTek 52mm, based on the info in this build, do you guys think I need to have Richard make my TB a bit bigger?

Also I have read that some do not replace the cam bearings if they are in good shape.... Any thoughts on this?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on March 05, 2013, 03:03:33 AM
Quote
Ok, my current TB is HipoTek 52mm, based on the info in this build, do you guys think I need to have Richard make my TB a bit bigger?
If your 408 build is more toward low end power, the 52mm TB will probably suffice.  However, if you are concerned about higher rpm, I would consider a HiPoTek 53mm TB.  Although I don't have dyno results from one to the other, my 408 felt more alive with the HiPoTek 53mm TB. 
Quote
Also I have read that some do not replace the cam bearings if they are in good shape.... Any thoughts on this?
Cam bearings are typically not a high wear item and may not require replacing.  However, if your block is being cleaned with a caustic solution, then you will need to replace them.  I have always thoroughly cleaned my blocks...and replaced the cam bearings and freeze plugs for peace of mind. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: northwest_5.9 on March 05, 2013, 05:49:15 PM
Sure is pretty!
why did you go with the m1 over the dual plane intake?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 05, 2013, 07:41:21 PM
Sure is pretty!
why did you go with the m1 over the dual plane intake?

Price was a big factor, this was the best deal I could get on a performance intake. Plus with the M1 I can always upgrade and not have that as a choke point or something that needs to be reworked much. I can go with a 4barrel TB also if need be with this manifold.

I may not keep this motor in my Ram, if some other project comes in my path like a Dakota RT, old Dart/Demon comes along for the right price I will want to throw this motor in those. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on March 06, 2013, 01:45:16 PM
Sure is pretty!
why did you go with the m1 over the dual plane intake?

Price was a big factor, this was the best deal I could get on a performance intake. Plus with the M1 I can always upgrade and not have that as a choke point or something that needs to be reworked much. I can go with a 4barrel TB also if need be with this manifold.

I may not keep this motor in my Ram, if some other project comes in my path like a Dakota RT, old Dart/Demon comes along for the right price I will want to throw this motor in those. 
so, then what would become of the truck???  You need the truck as a guinea pig, rolling test bed/  then, pick up another vehicle and build it up, "too"!!!(once you get the kinks out with the process and parts combo on this 1st motor.... the next one will then be easier!)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 06, 2013, 02:23:52 PM
Sure is pretty!
why did you go with the m1 over the dual plane intake?

Price was a big factor, this was the best deal I could get on a performance intake. Plus with the M1 I can always upgrade and not have that as a choke point or something that needs to be reworked much. I can go with a 4barrel TB also if need be with this manifold.

I may not keep this motor in my Ram, if some other project comes in my path like a Dakota RT, old Dart/Demon comes along for the right price I will want to throw this motor in those. 
so, then what would become of the truck???  You need the truck as a guinea pig, rolling test bed/  then, pick up another vehicle and build it up, "too"!!!(once you get the kinks out with the process and parts combo on this 1st motor.... the next one will then be easier!)

Im keeping the truck till I die. But I may move the motor down the road. And yes my truck is the guinea pig.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on March 09, 2013, 09:51:23 AM
Congrats,Looking forward too seeing this build come together..


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 09, 2013, 06:58:41 PM
Congrats,Looking forward too seeing this build come together..

Thanks John, Im trying LOL


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 09, 2013, 09:42:33 PM
Main Bearing Question???

I have a couple of opinions but I'd like to hear everyone elses opinion on this.

1/2 Groove or Full Grove Main bearings, whats the best for a sometimes daily driver that is abused regularly?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: aim4squirrels on March 11, 2013, 01:28:28 PM
I've always heard full groove was better.  Some guys even bought 2 sets of clevite halves if they didn't come in fulls to use.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on March 11, 2013, 05:33:33 PM
i had this conversation with my machinist. he told me that a full groove will consume more oil between change intervals. engines just arent normally built like that anymore. what astonished me was, he never answered the question. which one is better for a hp build?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on March 12, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
i had this conversation with my machinist. he told me that a full groove will consume more oil between change intervals. engines just arent normally built like that anymore. what astonished me was, he never answered the question. which one is better for a hp build?
grooving of main bearings has nothing to do with oil consumptopn at all. because once it goes thru the bearings it winds up back in the pan. bearings arent like rings that can "pass oil" into the combustion chamber


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 12, 2013, 06:34:47 PM
Ok, my limbo work situation is over. We ratified a 4 year contract "that I voted no for". But what's done is done and my job security looks pretty secure for the next 4 years.

So I'm gonna need some heads.  If I get the iron heads I'm looking at a 9.6:1 compression ratio and if I go with the eddy's it will be a bit higher.

Are their any tuning issues with having a near 10:1 compression ratio other than buying 93 octane gas?

All opinions are welcome.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on May 13, 2013, 04:07:04 PM
tuning, prolly not, though i'm no expert. just about fuel tables and ignition advance are the only things needed to square away. hemifever seems to be good with those.
10/1 on aluminum heads could go higher than that if you had to. the exhaust from 10/1 will be HOT!. you may want ceramic coated or header wrap on the exhaust!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on May 14, 2013, 04:45:46 AM
Quote
Ok, my limbo work situation is over. We ratified a 4 year contract "that I voted no for". But what's done is done and my job security looks pretty secure for the next 4 years.

So I'm gonna need some heads. If I get the iron heads I'm looking at a 9.6:1 compression ratio and if I go with the eddy's it will be a bit higher.

Are their any tuning issues with having a near 10:1 compression ratio other than buying 93 octane gas?

All opinions are welcome.

Aftermarket iron 2.02 heads will definitely be an improvement over stock in a 408.  I am partial to the Eddy aluminum heads. 

You shouldn’t have a problem with 10:1 compression with 93 octane in regard to tuning.   Also, aluminum heads allow for increased compression since they dissipate heat better than iron.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Richie on May 17, 2013, 12:29:08 AM
10:1 with aluminum heads will be fine. You could also look at ceramic coated pistons for extra security from detonation.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on June 21, 2013, 03:52:38 PM
Got my Eddy heads from HiPoTek today  8)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on June 22, 2013, 07:04:02 AM
Those things look so good you cld bout sop em up with a biscuit lol..


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 15, 2014, 02:36:19 PM
I'm getting this going again. Gonna get the rest of the parts and finally finish this project.

NXNLINE is making me Jealous...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: NXNLINE on February 16, 2014, 04:06:53 AM
Haha, awesome, i am tired of reading last years post! Where are you at with the build?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 16, 2014, 10:24:12 AM

Haha, awesome, i am tired of reading last years post! Where are you at with the build?

I'm still getting all the parts.

All I have left to buy is rings, rockers, pushrods, lifters, injectors, gaskets and main bearings. I possibly am going with a different cam than was previously


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on February 20, 2016, 07:05:07 AM
did you ever get anywhere with this??? I am about to pick up a 360 myself to rebuild and to then replace the tired one in my wife's Durango


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 20, 2016, 05:28:57 PM
Getting closer....   I bought a Cherry picker and engine stand,  buy I'm not happy with the engine stand so I'm gonna get some square tube and heavy duty casters to make it safe.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on February 20, 2016, 05:52:55 PM
Getting closer....   I bought a Cherry picker and engine stand,  buy I'm not happy with the engine stand so I'm gonna get some square tube and heavy duty casters to make it safe.
well I "had" an engine stand open back when you started this thread but 2 are loaned out now and my son has kinda confiscated my 3rd one... I had a great cherry picker but it took up too much room in between uses, so it went away. I have a neighbor though 2 doors away that has 2 of them... So after being the go to guy when someone needed one now I put the shoe on the other foot and borrow one when I need one.
I haven't done it this way at home yet being that I have a 2 post lift of my own, I have wrapped a chain around one arm of a lift and used that as a cherry picker at the job before. Dad used to have a huge gantry next to the house, I swapped more engines with that than anything I think....
I have also set a piece of water pipe across 3-4 ceiling joists in my garage and then hung a chainfall from that more than once.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 17, 2016, 06:50:27 PM
Hey Richard!   I'ts my birthday in a few days and the wife "said what do you want?", immediately I said "a camshaft and a Glock 26 or Ruger SR9c", well thats not gonna happen after I bought an AR15 "she says".  I'm glad she brought up this issue,  I need to get this build done.  So I'm asking for go fast Mopar parts.

We were talking about the HPT220XP cam at the time we last spoke online, but since then have any new cams become available that may suit my needs?  I'm also interested in some 1.6 roller rockers.  If you could PM me or post a link/price, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks



Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on March 18, 2016, 12:32:56 AM
Quote
Hey Richard!   I'ts my birthday in a few days and the wife "said what do you want?", immediately I said "a camshaft and a Glock 26 or Ruger SR9c", well thats not gonna happen after I bought an AR15 "she says".  I'm glad she brought up this issue,  I need to get this build done.  So I'm asking for go fast Mopar parts.

We were talking about the HPT220XP cam at the time we last spoke online, but since then have any new cams become available that may suit my needs?  I'm also interested in some 1.6 roller rockers.  If you could PM me or post a link/price, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks
I just sent you a pm Chris.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on March 18, 2016, 02:52:45 PM
well ok went onto CL and bought me another engine stand, got my 360 apart and to the machine shop. 
Got a question for you Chris; (idea) will PM it to you...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 21, 2016, 08:29:57 PM
Well I got a HPT224XR cam and some 1.6 Harland Sharp Rockers coming in the mail from www.Hi-PoTek.com.  Thanks Richard!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 25, 2016, 12:04:34 PM
That was quick! :D


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: jusdeez on March 29, 2016, 03:42:18 PM
Ohhh shiny!!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 30, 2016, 06:35:34 PM
Ohhh shiny!!

Hey John,  How you been bud?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on April 27, 2016, 05:14:59 PM
Hey Richard, I need some pushrods and cam bearings.  I don't know much about King Bearings, can you give some info of Kings reputation and where the parts are made?

I'm thinking of stock height pushrods since my rockers are 1.6 ratio with eddy heads and MP lifters. What you think?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on April 28, 2016, 11:47:16 PM
King Bearings is a US manufacturer that makes and distributes bearings around the world.  They have a good reputation.  I wouldn’t hesitate to use them.

If you haven’t machined the block deck or heads then the 6.950” length push rod usually works well.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on April 29, 2016, 05:05:51 PM
King Bearings is a US manufacturer that makes and distributes bearings around the world.  They have a good reputation.  I wouldn’t hesitate to use them.

If you haven’t machined the block deck or heads then the 6.950” length push rod usually works well.


Thanks for the King bearing info.

The heads will be Eddy Aluminum and I wont have the deck machined unless there is a need to do so.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on April 30, 2016, 04:16:55 AM
i have king bearings in my ride. 40k and going strong!
when i searched out hardened one piece p-rods, i couldnt find anything less fractional than tenths. my rods are 6.90 and the only next step up was 7s.. stockers are 6.92?? adjustable rockers take care of the rest of the discrepancy. always a real good idea to use adjustable rockers.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on April 30, 2016, 04:29:04 AM
dont know about you guys but, i always recoment a full crank case of ZDDP high zink oil for the break in period


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 22, 2016, 05:09:59 PM
i have king bearings in my ride. 40k and going strong!
when i searched out hardened one piece p-rods, i couldnt find anything less fractional than tenths. my rods are 6.90 and the only next step up was 7s.. stockers are 6.92?? adjustable rockers take care of the rest of the discrepancy. always a real good idea to use adjustable rockers.

Thanks Spun360, that helped calm my nerves with the king Bearings. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 22, 2016, 05:22:22 PM
dont know about you guys but, i always recoment a full crank case of ZDDP high zink oil for the break in period

Thats my plan also, but laws passed by the EPA reduced the amount of Zinc oil can have a few years back.  The ZDDP of today isn't as good as it was a few years ago but its still far better than regular shelf oil.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 22, 2016, 05:34:27 PM
Hey HiPoTek, I'm gonna need an order of Cam Bearings, Piston rings .30 over, Stock height push rods, and a complete gasket set with head gaskets.

The only questions I have is should I go with Hardened Pushrods vs Chrome Moly and I want to keep my Compression ration at 10:1 or lower with stock deck, so I'm not 100% sure on the head gasket I need.

I have the KB Hyper valve relief pistons, stock deck, and Eddy Aluminum heads.  If I'm missing some info you need let me know.

Thanks


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on May 22, 2016, 11:49:14 PM
Quote
Hey HiPoTek, I'm gonna need an order of Cam Bearings, Piston rings .30 over, Stock height push rods, and a complete gasket set with head gaskets.

The only questions I have is should I go with Hardened Pushrods vs Chrome Moly and I want to keep my Compression ration at 10:1 or lower with stock deck, so I'm not 100% sure on the head gasket I need.

I have the KB Hyper valve relief pistons, stock deck, and Eddy Aluminum heads.  If I'm missing some info you need let me know.

Thanks
I sent you a PM Chris.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on May 23, 2016, 01:58:55 PM
http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/driven-racing-oil/product-line/joe-gibbs-driven-br-break-in-motor-oil?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&autoview=SKU&ar=1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1008/overview/make/dodge


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 23, 2016, 06:17:37 PM
http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/driven-racing-oil/product-line/joe-gibbs-driven-br-break-in-motor-oil?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&autoview=SKU&ar=1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1008/overview/make/dodge

The 1008 Head Gasket puts me at a CR of 10.16:1.  Thats not bad.  Any thoughts?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Richie on May 24, 2016, 03:50:04 AM
You'll want to run hardened Push rods with Eddy heads. When I ran Eddy heads they use push rods guides that required hardened push-rods. That CR should be fine, especially with the help of the aluminum's head ability to  shed heat. You'll still want to listen for Detonation to make any necessary adjustments to timing or fuel to compensate.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on May 28, 2016, 04:48:36 AM
Quote
The 1008 Head Gasket puts me at a CR of 10.16:1.  Thats not bad.  Any thoughts?
Those are the gaskets I'm using for my 408. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on May 28, 2016, 06:11:26 AM
i might have to take back apart my build, just to use these gaskets. the speed shop i was working with had a complete disconnect and disregard for my wishes! then in the middle of a winter blizzard i had to reset the header gaskets, retorque the .050 junk mls head gaskets, and adjust the rocker arms properly for them, since they cant take direction. cocky bastards know better how to flub stuff up better than i do apparently!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 30, 2016, 04:27:43 PM
i might have to take back apart my build, just to use these gaskets. the speed shop i was working with had a complete disconnect and disregard for my wishes! then in the middle of a winter blizzard i had to reset the header gaskets, retorque the .050 junk mls head gaskets, and adjust the rocker arms properly for them, since they cant take direction. cocky bastards know better how to flub stuff up better than i do apparently!

That sucks, Let us know how it turns out


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 30, 2016, 04:29:24 PM
You'll want to run hardened Push rods with Eddy heads. When I ran Eddy heads they use push rods guides that required hardened push-rods. That CR should be fine, especially with the help of the aluminum's head ability to  shed heat. You'll still want to listen for Detonation to make any necessary adjustments to timing or fuel to compensate.
Quote
The 1008 Head Gasket puts me at a CR of 10.16:1.  Thats not bad.  Any thoughts?
Those are the gaskets I'm using for my 408. 

Thanks for the info!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on May 30, 2016, 04:51:31 PM
Got some Piston rings, cam bearings, and hardened pushrods on the way from Richard at www.HiPoTek.com!

I think that's it, other than gaskets and fuel injectors "I'll get those later". I'm pretty sure I have everything I need as far as the motor is concerned to stroke this out. Oh yea, I forgot to get freeze plugs. LOL

Now I gotta find a long weekend to yank this motor and trans out, so I can disassemble and find a Machine shop.

I'm looking at all my receipts and over 90% of my stroker rebuild parts have come from Richard at www.HiPoTek.com.  He's a great guy to deal with and has knowledge of these Mopars, his prices are very competitive and there is no reason why anyone should buy elsewhere.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on June 01, 2016, 07:04:47 AM
You're gonna need a cam bearing install tool for that...i know of someone who has one...


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on June 01, 2016, 05:21:21 PM
You're gonna need a cam bearing install tool for that...i know of someone who has one...

Your the 1st call I'm gonna make Don! LOL


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on June 02, 2016, 10:35:44 AM
Ooh boy, time to change my number??? 😂😉


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on June 02, 2016, 05:30:35 PM
Ooh boy, time to change my number??? 😂😉

LOL!  You can change it but I know where you live haha. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Richie on June 03, 2016, 12:58:08 PM
Little harder to move real quick huh


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 17, 2017, 05:11:28 PM
Wow its been a while since I posted here.  I got no more excuses, I gotta finish this thing.  I got way too many parts in boxes laying around and now I have a cherry picker and engine stand.  

I just got a full gasket set "minus head gaskets" in the mail.

So I need suggestions on fuel injectors and Head Gaskets. I'm pretty sure thats all I need. "Maybe Fuel Rails also".  I'm likely gonna buy the Felpro 1008 head gaskets "mentioned before in this topic" unless anyone else has a better option.

Thanks for the input 8)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: pacofortacos on March 28, 2017, 10:47:57 AM
WELL  :)

- Stock shim gasket in the low-mid .020" range - NOT stock magnum but stock LA shim gasket.
- 1121G Mr Gasket: .028"
- Felpro 1008: .039"

I like the Mr. Gasket if not milling the heads or block excessively and not using zero deck pistons.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 28, 2017, 06:34:54 PM
WELL  :)

- Stock shim gasket in the low-mid .020" range - NOT stock magnum but stock LA shim gasket.
- 1121G Mr Gasket: .028"
- Felpro 1008: .039"

I like the Mr. Gasket if not milling the heads or block excessively and not using zero deck pistons.

I have new Eddy heads and the deck shouldn't need milling.  I have a Zero deck pistons http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=Qi0gU21hbGwgQmxvY2sgRG9kZ2UgTWFnbnVt&level1=UGlzdG9ucyAoMzYwIFN0cm9rZXIp&searchmode=partnumber&page=6&partid=26375

Thanks, your thoughts?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: pacofortacos on March 29, 2017, 02:06:41 AM
Are you pistons a true zero deck when installed?  Are they installed yet?
I would probably go with either the fel pro 1008 or factory gasket which is about 0.40"  - might need thicker yet depending on deck height, piston to wall clearance and CR.
What would you CR be with that setup?

BUT it depends on your piston to cyl. wall clearance - if it is tight like the factory pistons (OEM specs (0.001-0.002") you can run as tight as 0.30 piston to head clearance but that is about the tightest, 0.40" would be safer.   MORE piston to cyl wall clearance will require slightly more piston to head clearance as the piston rocks at TDC and can hit the head.

Make sense?

I did find this, but it was about a small block chevy but most all wedge head engines are the same.

So now let’s introduce a tighter quench space into this equation. All of the respected engine builders who we’ve talked to are firm believers in minimizing the quench clearance. According to Ken Duttweiler, the tightest quench he recommends is around 0.050-inch. He has built engines with far tighter clearances than this, but much of this depends on the piston-to-wall clearance. All pistons tend to rock slightly as they transition through TDC and this rocking motion reduces the piston-to-head clearance. Smaller-diameter pistons with tight piston-to-wall clearances don’t rock nearly as much in the cylinder bore compared to larger-bore pistons with wider piston-to-wall clearances.

Since piston clearance plays such a big part in piston-to-head clearance, it is possible to run a piston-to-head clearance tighter than 0.040-inch if you feel brave. Noted horsepower hero John Lingenfelter says that clearances of 0.037 to 0.040 inch are possible, but you must know what you’re doing. The late Smokey Yunick also recommended a quench clearance of 0.040 inch as a safe but critical clearance.



Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: pacofortacos on March 29, 2017, 02:10:46 AM
also found this for the 5.9,  and did you see this thread?
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/quench-vs-piston-to-head-clearance.254733/

It will vary with the application, bore size, stroke, piston rock, rod material, and RPM. Average Street/race engine with steel rods 4" bore .035-.050" is safe and effective.
Aluminum rods .060"+.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: pacofortacos on March 29, 2017, 08:35:56 AM
Are your pistons installed yet?

 What shape is the dome?  I saw a few pictures of a piston for some engine that had a nice recessed area similar in shape to the combustion chamber and it was supposed to really help on swirl.  So it had a good squish band where the piston meets the machined head are  and kidney shaped dish in the combustion chamber area  - which served as valve reliefs and swirl promoter I guess.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 29, 2017, 06:03:02 PM
My Pistons are not installed yet. They are true zero deck and will be used with a forged SCAT I-beam rods. Below is a picture of my Pistons.

Thanks for the help


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: pacofortacos on March 30, 2017, 01:15:11 AM
I would probably buy the head gaskets after the pistons are installed.  You may find some that are above or below deck, hopefully not but it wouldn't be uncommon.

You might have to adjust the head gasket thickness for clearance or compression ratio, if all is good and you can get a decent squish it can really help.  Anything over 0.055 squish is ineffective, so don't worry about the squish if you need to go that much to drop compression or need valve clearance.

Should be a nice running setup  :)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on March 30, 2017, 06:10:27 PM
I would probably buy the head gaskets after the pistons are installed.  You may find some that are above or below deck, hopefully not but it wouldn't be uncommon.

You might have to adjust the head gasket thickness for clearance or compression ratio, if all is good and you can get a decent squish it can really help.  Anything over 0.055 squish is ineffective, so don't worry about the squish if you need to go that much to drop compression or need valve clearance.

Should be a nice running setup  :)

Thanks for the advice!

According to my math with the Felpro 1008 head gasket I should be at 9.7 to 9.8:1 compression ratio.  Your right though, I will straight edge it and make sure its zero deck before I buy the gaskets.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on June 21, 2017, 05:18:48 PM
Got more parts on the way from Richard at HiPoTek (98Dak408),  Holley Injectors, HiPoTek Fuel Rails and Braided hose plug and play kit.  The only thing left to buy is head gaskets.  I hope to pull this engine and trans in the next few weeks!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Richie on June 22, 2017, 12:54:37 AM
Sounds like a it gonna be a nice setup.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on July 11, 2017, 10:06:20 AM
Nice craftsmanship from Richard at HiPoTek.  These look better in person.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: Richie on July 11, 2017, 01:46:29 PM
They look nice.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on July 18, 2018, 04:40:12 PM
Finally got it out!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on July 20, 2018, 09:21:19 PM
A Special thanks goes out to my Brother "Steve", My Son "Ryan", and my Daughter "Laney" for helping get this out with my bad back.  I really appreciate and Love you all.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on July 21, 2018, 01:36:26 AM
A little help is always good.  I've been fighting a bad back since about 2015 and I never get a chance to let it rest. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on July 22, 2018, 01:32:15 PM
You have somebody else about 20 miles away who could have come out had I known what was going on, ha ha


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on July 22, 2018, 05:29:21 PM
Richard, I got your message and my Brother is waiting for his block to come back before he buys any valvetrain.

Don, we woke up early and decided to mess with the truck. We got carried away and 6.5 hours later the engine and transmission was out LOL.  Trust me I'll be calling you when assembly time comes.

Here's some pics of the tear down. I can't believe the minimal amount of wear on this motor for 210,000 miles.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on August 14, 2018, 05:19:07 PM
I dropped the block off at the machine shop yesterday "Midwest Engine Tech in Mokena, IL".  I gave them the crank, cam+bearings, rods and pistons to install for me because the Scat crank I ordered came in .005 oversized on the crank journals.  They have a bit of machine work to do to get the new stuff perfect.  I should have it back within a month.

The owner and lead machinist at this shop were very nice, They gave me a tour of the entire shop.  They had flow benches, final assembly rooms, dyno's, sonic tanks, and every metal working machine you can think of.  It was quite impressive, they spent about 2 hours with me talking motors.  The other shop I checked out was reputable also but the shop wasn't as clean from what I could see because they wouldn't give me a tour, plus it seemed like they were bothered I was asking so many questions. 

Maybe its just me but if I'm going to spend $800 to $1400 at a machine shop, I wanna see what their working with.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: B1llyw on August 14, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
You need to feel comfortable with who you are working with.  :)

I dropped the block off at the machine shop yesterday "Midwest Engine Tech in Mokena, IL".  I gave them the crank, cam+bearings, rods and pistons to install for me because the Scat crank I ordered came in .005 oversized on the crank journals.  They have a bit of machine work to do to get the new stuff perfect.  I should have it back within a month.

The owner and lead machinist at this shop were very nice, They gave me a tour of the entire shop.  They had flow benches, final assembly rooms, dyno's, sonic tanks, and every metal working machine you can think of.  It was quite impressive, they spent about 2 hours with me talking motors.  The other shop I checked out was reputable also but the shop wasn't as clean from what I could see because they wouldn't give me a tour, plus it seemed like they were bothered I was asking so many questions. 

Maybe its just me but if I'm going to spend $800 to $1400 at a machine shop, I wanna see what their working with.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on August 17, 2018, 02:32:28 AM
I'd heard of this place, and not all that far from me either, but never been there. Didn't know they had flow benches and such as well....  new crank oversize?  Is that to allow for "custom" builds or poor QC in manufacturing? If I spent that much on a brand new crank, yes I would be checking it before install-- Im sure many people would drop in and go and then wonder why there were issues.... but for what they cost I would HOPE that I'd be getting a product that wa sspot on, ready to drop in and go without having to spend the extra money to have it machined already, right out of the box....


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on August 17, 2018, 06:43:25 PM
I'd heard of this place, and not all that far from me either, but never been there. Didn't know they had flow benches and such as well....  new crank oversize?  Is that to allow for "custom" builds or poor QC in manufacturing? If I spent that much on a brand new crank, yes I would be checking it before install-- Im sure many people would drop in and go and then wonder why there were issues.... but for what they cost I would HOPE that I'd be getting a product that wa sspot on, ready to drop in and go without having to spend the extra money to have it machined already, right out of the box....

I was wrong on my math my Scat crank is .0005 oversized, but its still oversized.  .  What you just said Don, is exactly what they said "why can't it be perfect from the factory?".  I do know Cast Cranks from Eagle are cast and machined in China, while Scat Cranks are cast in China but machined here in the USA. My Brother bought a forged Pontiac 455 stroker crank from Eagle and it was .001 oversized.  The Comp Camshaft I bought was right on the money, it was perfectly factory sized so that's good.  With these older motors, everything needs to be double checked now.
 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on August 18, 2018, 12:18:39 AM
Quote
You need to feel comfortable with who you are working with.   :)
I totally agree. The first few powder coaters I used initially had dirty shops.   I got sick of taking nice clean parts to be coated just to see them placed in a pile of dirt waiting to be coated.  Then once coated, sitting in another pile of dirt waiting to be picked up.  The company I finally switched to and have been using for a while always has a clean floor and a separate clean room for the finished parts waiting to be picked up.  I drive an hour each way but it is worth it to have a quality job.  That’s an hour each way to deliver the parts and an hour each way to pick up the finished parts.  It’s not very cost effective on single parts but I don’t have to worry about how the parts will turn out.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on September 24, 2018, 05:02:21 PM
I got the block back today.  It looks great.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on September 24, 2018, 05:10:53 PM
One more pic.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: B1llyw on September 24, 2018, 11:48:02 PM
I got the block back today.  It looks great.

Sweet!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on September 25, 2018, 02:07:41 AM
Progress!  8)


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on October 03, 2018, 05:36:10 PM
I would probably go with either the fel pro 1008 or factory gasket which is about 0.40"  - might need thicker yet depending on deck height, piston to wall clearance and CR.
What would you CR be with that setup?

BUT it depends on your piston to cyl. wall clearance - if it is tight like the factory pistons (OEM specs (0.001-0.002") you can run as tight as 0.30 piston to head clearance but that is about the tightest, 0.40" would be safer.   MORE piston to cyl wall clearance will require slightly more piston to head clearance as the piston rocks at TDC and can hit the head.
I did find this, but it was about a small block chevy but most all wedge head engines are the same.

So now let’s introduce a tighter quench space into this equation. All of the respected engine builders who we’ve talked to are firm believers in minimizing the quench clearance. According to Ken Duttweiler, the tightest quench he recommends is around 0.050-inch. He has built engines with far tighter clearances than this, but much of this depends on the piston-to-wall clearance. All pistons tend to rock slightly as they transition through TDC and this rocking motion reduces the piston-to-head clearance. Smaller-diameter pistons with tight piston-to-wall clearances don’t rock nearly as much in the cylinder bore compared to larger-bore pistons with wider piston-to-wall clearances.
Since piston clearance plays such a big part in piston-to-head clearance, it is possible to run a piston-to-head clearance tighter than 0.040-inch if you feel brave. Noted horsepower hero John Lingenfelter says that clearances of 0.037 to 0.040 inch are possible, but you must know what you’re doing. The late Smokey Yunick also recommended a quench clearance of 0.040 inch as a safe but critical clearance.

My pistons came out to zero deck clearance.  The Machine shop recommended "at least" .050 thick head gaskets for this reason.

I'm probably gonna use Cometic head gaskets, I found some online that were .040 overbore and .051 thick.  Does this sound like the right gasket? Also Richard/HiPoTek can you get these? And what would compression be with this size gasket?

My other question is there a cheaper head gasket I can use for "Mock Up" with clay that is the same or close thickness to make sure I don't have Piston to valve clearance issues?  Or should I just spring for 2 sets of Cometic head gaskets.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on October 03, 2018, 11:40:10 PM
Quote
My pistons came out to zero deck clearance.  The Machine shop recommended "at least" .050 thick head gaskets for this reason.

I'm probably gonna use Cometic head gaskets, I found some online that were .040 overbore and .051 thick.  Does this sound like the right gasket? Also Richard/HiPoTek can you get these? And what would compression be with this size gasket?

My other question is there a cheaper head gasket I can use for "Mock Up" with clay that is the same or close thickness to make sure I don't have Piston to valve clearance issues?  Or should I just spring for 2 sets of Cometic head gaskets.
Yes I can get the Cometic head gaskets.  The .051 is the compressed thickness.  Nothing beats using the actual material you are going to use but you might want to check the OEM gasket you removed for its compressed thickness.  It may be something around .054 but I don't remember off the top of my head. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on October 10, 2018, 05:40:05 PM
The compressed thickness of my old "stock" head gasket is .044.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 02, 2019, 06:14:19 PM
I got the Cometic head gaskets from Hi-Potek/Richard and they look to be of high quality with quick shipping

I've had bad luck with sparkplug wires over the years dealing with Taylor Cable (made in mexico now) so I thought I'd try something different for this build.  I bought some B & B Manufacturing Corporation M8-58380 8mm wires, they are made in the USA and have very good reviews.  I also picked up some Autolight 3923 sparkplugs.

What do you guys think of these parts for my build?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: B1llyw on January 03, 2019, 02:27:59 AM
I tihink B&B is Billy Boat - former Indy Car driver?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: donram360 on January 03, 2019, 01:22:13 PM
I got the Cometic head gaskets from Hi-Potek/Richard and they look to be of high quality with quick shipping

I've had bad luck with sparkplug wires over the years dealing with Taylor Cable (made in mexico now) so I thought I'd try something different for this build.  I bought some B & B Manufacturing Corporation M8-58380 8mm wires, they are made in the USA and have very good reviews.  I also picked up some Autolight 3923 sparkplugs.

What do you guys think of these parts for my build?
never heard of those wires before, the B&B ones,
I used a couple of sets of Taylor wires like 25 years ago when Super Shops were still around....  maybe 30 years ago. seemed OK at the time.
Now a days, I have been buying the high line Napa "wired for Life" ones.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on January 03, 2019, 08:13:45 PM
I tihink B&B is Billy Boat - former Indy Car driver?

 Im not sure.

I am also not sure of the Made in USA claim.  On their contact page their mailing address is Puerto Rico.  While Puerto Rico is a US territory and they pay income tax, it still seems weird.  Regardless if they look of good quality, I'll give them a shot.  I'd rather give my money to Puerto Rico than China or Mexico or any other country.

Here is their website:  http://bbmanufacturing.com/

What do you guys think of the Autolite 3923 spark plugs I picked out?


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: B1llyw on January 04, 2019, 01:13:12 AM
Autolite 3923 has been a go-to Magnum plug for years, should be fine.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 18, 2019, 05:12:29 PM
One of the final parts I need is a Torque Converter.  There is nothing wrong with my stock TC but I think an upgrade here will equal some speed.  Any thoughts?

I do not plan to tow or carry more than 1500-2000 LBS ever with this truck when its done.

Need opinions on stall speed...

Thanks!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on February 18, 2019, 05:59:48 PM
I just had a 2400 stall from PATC grenade and and cause me an entire rebuild and wash down of contaminants. real drag! may have lasted 30/ 40k miles. maybe monster trans has something in a 2400.
this trans this time around has a "precision" of newhampshire TQ with a billet cover and 1600 stall. feels like a grocery getter once again.
come to think of it- they also have street and drag option TQs! not cheap


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on February 19, 2019, 03:15:36 AM
If you are building this for spirited driving with occasional loads you could go with a 2600-2800 stall. 

I've been running a 2800 in my 408 with good results. 


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 19, 2019, 05:49:40 PM
Thanks for the input guys.

I was thinking 2400 stall speed but if I can do a 2600 stall I will.  Being a quadcab Ram 1500 I worry about the weight of the truck being an issue with the 2800-3000 stall, maybe I'm overthinking things. In reality this truck will be lucky to hit a very spirited 10,000 miles per year when complete.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on February 20, 2019, 07:05:14 AM
Quote
I was thinking 2400 stall speed but if I can do a 2600 stall I will.  Being a quadcab Ram 1500 I worry about the weight of the truck being an issue with the 2800-3000 stall, maybe I'm overthinking things. In reality this truck will be lucky to hit a very spirited 10,000 miles per year when complete.
Frequent heavier loads are better with a tighter converter but it is a matter of how often you do it.  If it is fairly often then the 2400 may be the better choice.  The only time a higher stall comes into play is when you are leaving the line in a hurry so it engages at a higher rpm putting you more into the engine torque range out of the gate.  I believe your cam is a 224/230 in a 408 so it will make some good torque.  If you are more into jazzy of-the-line take-offs with less towing then the higher stall is more appropriate.  If you think you'll be doing a fair amount of towing then the 2400 may be best.  The 2400 with a 408 will still be fun on the street.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 20, 2019, 06:18:09 PM
Traction has been an issue with 275's tires and the DANA Trac-Lok before this build but I look to level it and maybe add a caltrack type setup in the future.  

Since I'm getting rid of my self identifying German Chevy SUV ASAP, I will be getting a pickup truck to do the future towing.  I pulled the hitch off the my Ram.  So there will be zero towing with my Ram.

The 2600 stall looks tempting now...

Cam Specs
My Cam is part# 20-000-9
Grind# CRS 3314B/3015B HR110.0
Duration @.050 Intake 224 Exhaust 224
Lobe lift Intake .3350 Exhaust .3590
LSA110
Gross valve lift... Intake .536 Exhaust .574
I can post the cam card if needed.





Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 21, 2019, 04:45:04 AM
Cam card


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on February 23, 2019, 02:38:10 PM
just a mention. for me, the 2400rpm kept the truck at 2400 all the time during slow speed crawls. never would the truck  run lower than 2400. in town from light to light or alley crawls the truck sounded like it was doing 60mph. a 2400 TQ was fun but I could identify how it wouldn't be for everybody.

also the TQ is the furnace or heat generator for the trans. mine with the stock size cooler was tough to keep under 240 degrees. my 2nd gen was retroed to a 3rd gen giant power wagon trans cooler.

patc tried to up sell me to a 3,000rpm.. whoa!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 23, 2019, 06:18:22 PM
You got me thinking a trans temp gauge would be a good idea.  I already have a large after market cooler.


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: spun360 on February 24, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
temp chart


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: magnumman on February 24, 2019, 04:50:22 PM
Thanks Spun360.

Thats good info!


Title: Re: The Bionic Build
Post by: 98Dak408 on March 07, 2019, 03:08:05 AM
I've been running the Viper 2800 with my 408 for a number of years.  It feels like the stock converter until you hit the gas.