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Bionicdodge.Com  |  Bionic Tech  |  3.9/5.2/5.9 (Moderators: Lynn, 98Dak408)  |  Topic: The Bionic Build 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: The Bionic Build  (Read 34061 times)
magnumman
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« on: January 01, 2012, 08:56:56 PM »

Ok, Im thinking of slowly starting a build project around this cam ".566 intake .536 exhaust on 1.6 ration rocker, Duration 214 intake and 224 exhaust with a 108LSA". Cam Card---> http://s473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/pokeypennell/parts/?action=view&current=sept2010297.jpg

I'd like for all members to add their 2 cents and advice to help me build this. I'd like to keep this on the budget side as much as possible, if possible.

Im looking to a 408cid build to match the cam. I dont want to exceed 7000rpm and would like to get as much hp/tq as possible for a 2001 1500 Ram and still be able to drive it on the street.

Info I would like feedback on is:

oil pump
roller rockers
heads+head gaskets
connecting rods
pistons
bolts
crankshaft
crankshaft bearings
intake
stall converter
anything else?

As the build progresses, I will keep you all informed. But it hasn't even started yet. Im not an engine builder but I to plan to do all of the work myself with a few helping hands minus the machining.

Thanks, Chris

« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 09:00:07 PM by magnumman » Logged

2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
northwest_5.9
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 01:47:37 AM »

what kind of hp/tq could you expect from something like that?
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2003 Hemi Ram 2500 4x4 (sold)
1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9, EQ 2.02, 210x cam, Hughes air gap, 52mm tb, Hemifever jucied up-(gone to car heaven)
2006 Grand Cherokee SRT-Mopar CAI 91 OCT. Tune
ScojoDak
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 05:59:49 AM »

Valve springs and a tune.
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donram360
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 06:11:01 AM »

I didn't see the rocker ratio that the gross valve lift was advertised at,  but the cam card shows less lift than you typed; is the advertised lift on the card, at a lower rocker ratio than you list?  you said 1.6; RR for the old "LA" (pre magnum) was 1.5.  is that what the cam card is figuring on?    a common setup I see with magnums is a 1.7 RR.
cam card says 0.531" I  & 0.502" E.  

Engine assembly isn't "hard" at all to do; just attention to detail and measure everything; clearances and torque most critical among them.  and CLEAN. make sure all "machining dust" is totally out of the castings.  and parts used all matched to your goal;  this is where I have had the most issue; I have had a few engines sound great but were blah where they counted  that being in the performance end.  You aren't looking to build a race truck, ( are you?)  you want torque/power to get that heavy mass moving. in daily driving you say 7000 RPM; you probably wont even see 5000 RPM more times than you can count on one hand. (unless you swap to like a 6.13 gear or somethin crazy, haha funny)

 You needing a hand with the buildup/motor swap? (once you get started that is)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 06:12:15 AM by donram360 » Logged
98Dak408
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 07:06:18 AM »

Quote
I didn't see the rocker ratio that the gross valve lift was advertised at,  but the cam card shows less lift than you typed; is the advertised lift on the card, at a lower rocker ratio than you list?  you said 1.6; RR for the old "LA" (pre magnum) was 1.5.  is that what the cam card is figuring on?    a common setup I see with magnums is a 1.7 RR.
cam card says 0.531" I  & 0.502" E. 
Comp Cams typically calls out their specs on the card at the 1.5 rocker ratio and then you have to calulate what it would be at a 1.6 or 1.7 ratio from there.  Even though the cam card pic doesn't show the lobe lift, it should be there and you multiply the ratio by that.  I get so many concerned phone calls from people I've sold cams to wondering if they received the correct cam and I have to explain that.  I wish Comp Cams would call it out on the card.   Sad
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drewactual
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 08:23:04 AM »

I'm likely the least experienced with Magnum's here.. but this notion continuously runs through my head.. Forgive me for asking, but:

what are you pairing this to? Manual, or Auto? If auto, what TC are you considering? What gears will it be turned through? Are you looking for performance top end or monster low end torque?

I ask these things, because you're starting from the ground up- and you're doing it incredibly intelligently, which is to identify purpose first.. I wish like hell I would have done that, and I'm thinking I will ultimately end up starting all over- and doing it right..

so anyway, somebody feel absolutely free to tell me to STFU, but here is how I've come to think about building:

Truck- Purpose, weight, wheels/tires, DD or weekend warrior, top end for mud, low end for trailing, mid for all around..

drivetrain- gears matched to weight, purpose, wheel/tire combo for overall drive ratio, and matched a little lower to protect the auto transmission if'n that's what I've got.. Torque converter selected to match drive purpose and engine builds range (if auto)..

engine- purpose built, and in short: torque/HP range selected to compliment drivetrain (which was paired together to match purpose)..

I guess what I'm saying is: If you were to share the purpose you have intended for this build, not only can you better identify what direction- but I can also take advantage of your build specs, and learn some more stuff to help me in my own endeavors.. not to mention, help others too..

thanks- and, subscribed.. 

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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 10:56:48 AM »

Instead of quoting everything Im gonna try to answer everything above in this post.

Tune will be done by hemifever as I already have his "can tune".

I really dont have a hp/tq goal, I plan to build it correctly around the cam to get as much hp/tq as possible but keep it streetable. Im aware this cam will require stall converter and atleast 4.10:1 gears. Im running 3.92 gears now with a stock converter.

This a 2wd Ram so I dont have any mud worries or dreams. I just want a faster truck.

Don, I do hit 5300rpm quite often now. My trans shifts about then at WOT. I set a 7000rpm limit above because of parts costs, I doubt I'll ever see that. And yes I will likely need your help once assembly begins. Thanks for offering.
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
98Dak408
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 11:05:54 AM »

I think that cam is going to pull some pretty good torque and mid-range in a 408, especially on a 108 LSA.  According to Comp Cams cam simulator, I would guess peak torque may be around 3800/4000 and peak HP around 5200/5400.  But it depends upon the level of modifications.   For instance, my 408 produced peak torque at 4000 and peak HP around 5500/5600, with a 220/230 on a 108 LSA, and it was running pretty rich. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 11:06:47 AM by 98Dak408 » Logged

donram360
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 03:16:40 PM »

3;92>4:11 not enough difference I don't think, to matter. and "build around the cam"; I take it, that the cam's already bought huh??
Gonna build "your" motor or are you gonna buy a core to build and swap when finished building?
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magnumman
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2012, 03:19:16 PM »

3;92>4:11 not enough difference I don't think, to matter. and "build around the cam"; I take it, that the cam's already bought huh??
Gonna build "your" motor or are you gonna buy a core to build and swap when finished building?

Yea Ive had the cam for a while now. I'd like to build a core but I cant find one cheap enough.
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 03:24:11 AM »

if you build it, they will come!
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2003 Hemi Ram 2500 4x4 (sold)
1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9, EQ 2.02, 210x cam, Hughes air gap, 52mm tb, Hemifever jucied up-(gone to car heaven)
2006 Grand Cherokee SRT-Mopar CAI 91 OCT. Tune
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 10:53:41 AM »

Here's my humbles, won't comment unless i have a handle on it :

Oil pump: Melling high volume

roller rockers: adjustables in aluminum

heads+head gaskets: if no boost, get the felpro complete gasket kit from rock auto and save about $50.  For the heads, get something that'll feed that extra CI on a 408.  The 408 should definitely bangle 2.02 valves. The Eddies might be your best bet for bolt ons. Eddies will at least have the benefit of using a cheaper Chevy rocker arm on studs.

connecting rods:  I've read to stay away from eagle on several boards.

pistons: gotta decide whether it'll ever see boost or not, no boost go Hypers and around a 10.5 CR, but ask Sean where the sweet spot is for CR on pump gas available to you.

bolts: ARP bolts or studs depending on the HP output projected

crankshaft: see connecting rods comment.

crankshaft bearings:  i think "How to build big inch small block mopars" recommended clevites, and buying 2 sets and using the sides with oil grooves on both the top and bottom.

intake: M1

stall converter find out where its curve is and order one up from Wayne at APS, or better yet, Richard may have a deal with the guys that build those RAMZILLA transmissions.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 09:42:26 AM by aim4squirrels » Logged
magnumman
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 11:02:24 AM »

Thanks for the info Aim!

This is an NA build, No boost or spray. I guess I should of mentioned that in my first post.
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
donram360
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 01:22:21 PM »

if I ever get working again I have a 98 318 block that I'd like to turn into a 390......good luck on this.
I have seen a few 360s recently popping up on CL. its kind of a hit or miss type situation on those.
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jusdeez
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 01:48:15 PM »

One thing i have been looking and hoping for is one of yous guys,chris/bill/marts(although hes overseas)dondon,richard,heck anyone of our bionic gurus,take a 340(gawd i lub those motors)and build one for our trucks with boring it out to like a 416 or so,i think personally that would be so much better than you're standard 360-408 build.A gent on another board(maybe on here as well lol) superdack,was building up a 340 block bored whole nine yards with maggy heads and intake but something ended up going wrong bye the builder and motah blew,Sorry end threadjack,,lol
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 01:56:11 PM by deeznutts » Logged

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