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Bionicdodge.Com  |  Bionic Tech  |  3.9/5.2/5.9 (Moderators: Lynn, 98Dak408)  |  Topic: well finally my Durango runs again.... 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: well finally my Durango runs again....  (Read 7768 times)
magnumman
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« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2016, 06:36:18 PM »

I would keep the original as a spare if the SKIM matches on the bone yard pcm, use that one.  Bench test vs. real world is completely different when it comes to bumps, bouncing and vibration the pcm goes through in the real world.

What company are you dealing with?
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
donram360
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2016, 08:25:31 AM »

SIA electronics in southern Illinois. Down near DuQuoin.

With all of the issues and grief  that the brain on this thing has caused me, and the fact that I now know that I can't just plop a junkyard unit into it w/o additional grief,  I was hoping that  in the end that they were able to get them both going as I plan on having this Durango until it rusts into the ground.

Having said that, I had figured on an overhaul of the engine from day 1 of buying it, just so happened that among the electrical issues it made for a convenient time to do it.
I just hope that with it going pig rich on me so soon after dropping the new engine in, that it didn't wash out the oil on the cylinder walls and. cause me problems with the new one. In the old days I have heard of more than one stuck float that caused such issues....... with the computer driving it full rich that would be about the same thing. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 08:35:31 AM by donram360 » Logged
magnumman
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2016, 07:42:59 PM »

SIA electronics in southern Illinois. Down near DuQuoin.

With all of the issues and grief  that the brain on this thing has caused me, and the fact that I now know that I can't just plop a junkyard unit into it w/o additional grief,  I was hoping that  in the end that they were able to get them both going as I plan on having this Durango until it rusts into the ground.

Having said that, I had figured on an overhaul of the engine from day 1 of buying it, just so happened that among the electrical issues it made for a convenient time to do it.
I just hope that with it going pig rich on me so soon after dropping the new engine in, that it didn't wash out the oil on the cylinder walls and. cause me problems with the new one. In the old days I have heard of more than one stuck float that caused such issues....... with the computer driving it full rich that would be about the same thing. 

Maybe pull the plugs and spray a little "Kroil" in each cylinder before startup. 
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
donram360
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« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2019, 04:13:01 PM »

wow didn't think it had been THAT long,,,,, I thought I'd updated this thing more right after this... guess not
 got it going again once home, cat clogged solid, (it was brand freaking NEW)  hooked up scanner, and instead of having 3-ish mS  injector on time readings it had 17. some mS readings.....(yeah you read that right)
   drained  break in oil to change out,  and got a slurry of silver out with the oil that I have never seen on a 1st oil change.... truck has been garage ornament since, I remember reading some other posts on here at the time,  someone (I forget who) that had had theirs listed for sale, telling me that he had gone thru 4 computers before he got a good one....  tired of seeing this thing sit, tired of airing up the tires as it sits,  my 92 Dakota went away (and I saved its engine to dump in here just to get it mobile, even though that was just a 318, this is a 360 truck) Wrangler also went away. 

would have been happy to see this thing move again (besides get the wife to quit nagging me about it and constantly "reminding" me about it-- she absolutely LOVED this thing when she was driving it)   plans were to stab that 226K mile 318 in there as the engine is still very strong, quiet and not an oil burner, plan was to stick this in there and get the Durango mobile at least, while I pull the rebuilt 360 out and put it back on the stand, see if I can figure out what damage was done washing it down with that amount of gas while she drove it again. then fix if possible and put back in.  Or go thru the original engine and swap that in when I get it done up....

but lately I have been seeing a claimed 136k mile 360 out of an '00 (mine is '01) on CL,  hauled in a load of scrap this morning/ and had a guy drive out from Detroit after seeing a CL ad that I had posted for a set of 70s 340/360 heads that I have sitting here collecting dust.... after he left back for Detroit,  I headed for Indiana and picked up this engine.... what I got for those heads and for scrap this morning combined, paid for this one....

it has over 100K less on it than my Durango body does.  Though I have always been a huge fan of 318s, I have a mental issue putting in something smaller than what it came with....  though I have done just that in carb'd applications, more than once.  The price on this one was right, can't find one in a JY for what I paid. even with ALOT more miles.

this is southern truck, only been thru 2 Chicago winters, last of which was 4 years ago.    so even with such high miles, still worth putting an engine into/ the trans in it,  has as many miles on a fresh rebuild as that engine that is in it now, does.....   a total of about 6, half of those miles in "neutral" on the back end of a tow strap. and I have another (fresh) spare trans here, besides.

I have brand new EQ heads on the motor in the truck now,  going to put this newly acquired engine on a stand, and regasket everything while access is best. and look it over good.   thinking of putting those brand new heads from the engine that is in it, on here "just because".... hoping that the overfueling didn't damage them, after having read the reposted-from-the-dead  article about the 360 that Hughes and Westech figured out and re-rebuilt.....

have a set of 1.7 roller rockers here (and pushrods) that I want to put onto this engine, once its in and running and "debugged"  and a set of brand new unknown brand, stainless shorty headers here taht I also got ata  too good to pass on price. but not until.... well might put headers on with install but not yet the 1.7 rockers. I want it running good "stock" 1st, because if there is a problem I want to solve it while all is "stock" so that I don't add other possible causes to the mix.
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magnumman
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« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2019, 04:38:58 PM »

Good plan on waiting on the 1.7's, plus you'll get to feel the difference with the upgrade.

I've seen the slurry before in a motor I rebuilt back in 2003ish.  I used Borowski Racing in Joliet, I know they do work for Beglars too.  They machined my block and heads but the parts never seen the wash tank!  I put a 140 miles on the motor and checked the oil and it looked like it had a large amount of glitter in it.  I did a compression test and it was perfect.  I changed the oil and ran it 400 more miles and it had very little glitter in the pan. On the 3rd oil change it came out clean.  I put another 100k on the car with zero motor issues. 

I'd say change the oil and run it and change it again to see if it clears up since you have a spare motor waiting.
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
donram360
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2019, 02:48:24 PM »

naaah/  plan for now is to regasket this latest CL find, inspect everything as well as I can in that process, probably pull my brand new EQ heads off the engine that's sitting in there now,  if I don't find anything goofy when I pull this pan,  drop this one in there, get it going, and then pull the pan off the one sitting in there at the moment and see what I can see.
so far the one I got 2 days ago looks good, other than oil was black as tar (came out alright, no lumps or chunks)   tops of heads and lifter valley clean, can tell it has never been opened up before..... want to use the new heads because the springs are also new and not fatigued yet for when I put the 1.7s on.... and I spent the money on them already anyhow.
this thing is gonna die with us anyways.... wife likes it too much to do anything otherwise   and being from the South it has extremely minimal salt damage.....
this motor has 136k on it.... one in between fenders has 6 miles, original one has 258K.....  as long as this one passes inspection it should last us another 100k anyhow....
I also still have the 318 on another engine stand that was in my 92 club cab, 226k miles but the last 62k of that was mine.... and I know the history on that one....  not sure what will become of that one yet. I now have 3, 360s and 3, 318s.    2 318s are completely apart, 2, 360 are part way apart and the 3rd one will be again, within a few days. 

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donram360
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« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2019, 06:01:42 PM »

ok anyone still hanging with me???  I got the CL 360 that I picked up last weekend on the stand, and down to a bare longblock, still need to pull the heads..... need my kid to come by and help me roll it over on the stand.....  have a new double roller "heavy duty" timing chain coming "just because".... will be here Mon.   was gonna pull the one off the turd that is within the fenders, but I plan to fix that engine and then I'd need to buy one then... pay now or pay later I guess.... if this engine is salvageable without starting all over again, I have a place for it, once I get the Durango rolling again.
picked up an aluminum plate "water jet" on feebay for $55--- $70 incl shipping. I thought Hughes were $80 for theirs?   They have doubled in price with Dorman gaskets etc, a little more yet for Fel Pro..... I vote for Fel Pro anyday over Dorman. I thought tehre were a few guys selling these things, there was only 1 listing when I was looking, his Ebay handle is "289 guy" (eeeek... a Ford guy) in case anyone needs one.

The intake that came off of this CL find, has a bit of pitting going on around the water ports, (where the T stat gets its water)  I have another (actually a few more beer barrel intakes) collecting dust around here, so I found one I liked better.... the T chain cover had the typical water leak around the ports behind the water pump, same story there.... T chain cover gasket was blown out "both sides" saw a "calcium stain" on passenger side/ surprised it wasnt showing on the block on both sides....  cover had a little pitting, on the gasket surface, not terrible/ but within a year it would be leaking again.... doing all that I can to avoid any leakage while this engine is on the stand.....
so for now, I stole the chain cover off the engine within the fenderwells.... 
I got the outsides of the block all descaled, wire wheeled and ready for some paint/ and the oilpan that came from that engine too. (this, the one I brought home a week ago)

NOW FOR THE BAD NEWS.....
Partly because "it needs to be done anyways"/"should have been done long ago" partly because I'm stuck here today (wife took her Mom to a damn "baby shower", yuck/ I had other plans that got blown out of the water by this) I got the engine that I rebuilt 2-1/2 years ago that "went bad" pulled down to a shortblock today..... haven't pulled the short block out yet.
As I was pulling it apart, the 1st sign of distress was a bent #4 exhaust valve pushrod when I pulled the intake.  next the valve covers came off, #4 exh valve "stuck"....
once I got the heads off I discovered a badly bent valve.  I can see where it kissed the piston too....
Cylinders look good, about 1/2 of crosshatch still left. want to get it on a stand and check the bearings....I think my "slurry" was pounding out of at least 1 set of rod bearings..... want to check #4 rod for being (possibly) bent.....   

On 5 of the cylinders (including #4) they are black as coal/ can tell they were pig rich.... the other 3 look like I put the heads on and took them right back off, without trying to ever run the engine.   #1,2,3 are the "clean" cylinders.....  all cylinder walls look the same, little stain at top of ring travel, #4 that stain is black ("rich") the the rest are a bit rusty looking.... the eingine hasn't even been turned over with a bar in 2-1/2 years since it all went to He11.... but truck has been sitting inside my garage all this time.
at this point IDK if the exh valve just "stuck" and then hung long enough for the piston to meet it but that would be mu guess....
I remember that article where someone else had a problem with these heads and the giudes, it was linked here... These are "EQ" heads, the heads in that article were "Iron Ram" heads which are Hughes' own name for the same heads, but what IDK is if the ones from that article were "as shipped" or if Hughes had "massaged" them before being sold....

Mine had a 1 yr warranty, if it is a guide issue then it "would have been" warranteeable, but it isn't now, because I waited too long to investigate///  because I was PO'd at it, and we had enough transportation to go around at the time..... so I let it sit.


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magnumman
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« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2019, 06:43:19 PM »

I wouldn't chance using those EQ heads again.  Slap those 360 heads you got from me on there and you should be safe.
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
donram360
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« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2019, 03:26:45 AM »

I want to take the EQ's to the machine shop and see what they say, see if they see a guide issue or what.  let them tell me what they see.... It'll cost me a bit for that, but I already have $700 in them.... a lot of money to me. but I don't want them if they are going to do this again. I went back and re read that article from Hot rod that has been linked here and different circumstances (this thing is completely stock, that truck wasn't) but the problem within the heads sounds very much the same.

after this catastrpohe what ever heads go back onto that thing will go thru the machine shop 1st...... if these heads wind up being FUBAR, then yes those particular heads that you speak of,  will certanly be going in for a checkup next.  but I feel a need to get some salvation out of what I spent on the EQs.


I have a total of 9 other Magnum heads here, besides the EQs....
the ones I got from you
the ones that came with this most recent engine
the ones from the original 5.9 that this Durango left the factory with (one of which still bolted to the block)
the ones on the 92 318 that came out of my most recent Dakota (that is still a complete ready to drop in good used engine)
and 1 more under the bench that was machine shop checked and "cleared" as a good crack free head

« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 08:07:42 AM by donram360 » Logged
donram360
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2019, 12:47:12 PM »

INTERESTING...….
we have an old automotive machine shop that has recently been reopened by the son of the owner of a machine shop that I know of about 20 miles from here. Decent kid but IDK how much experience he has..... we made  a trip to Houston a few years ago to check out that SAM (school of automotive machinists) that used to advertise constantly on the Velocity channel with all the car repair/ resto shows, strangely I have not seen any of their ads in some time..... I found out a few months later this kid was attending that school at the time that we were down there.....he is close to home and easier for me to access in the hour that I have between the time my workday ends and the machine shops close.... If his Dad or his uncle was here with him, I'd feel better about trying him out to see what he can do....  I know that he worked at his Dad's shop "for a while" but IDK to what extent.  (yeah Chris, this is Begler's I am talking about)  


but being that these are brand spanking new EQ heads that I am having problem with, I took a "long lunch" and took them to a machine shop right across the border in Indiana that I have used before, that has been around for quite a long time, and I feel better about their "experience level" This guy also has his son working there with him, but the difference is "with" him.... not 20 miles away.

So I get there and move their door stop/boulder to hold the door open so I can carry my heads in and the owner's son comes right over to help me, he grabbed 1 head out of my truck while I carried in the other.  "punch line coming"...  before I had a chance to say much of anything, he said "lemmee guess..... you bought these fully assembled out of the box and bolted them on your motor and you have problems with valves sticking, and they are Mopar Magnum heads, right"?    HUH? WHAT?   exactly what I have. nailed it on the head without me saying a word....  
"yeah I have seen this before"  
seems another shop job that he has had was a 318 that was headed for a 60-something Dart that they were brought to rebuild and soup up a bit.  He thought this would be the ideal perfect scenario. Assembled, no sunk seats or worn guides, or warpage, would save a whole bunch of time in the build. the customer apparently left it up to them to pick the parts after telling the machine shop their desires/ expectations of the build....
He had this customer's engine on their dyno, and during the 2000 RPM cam break in time, he experienced the same thing with that engine.... bent the pushrod and at least 1 valve, somehow ruined that new cam and something else (I forget what it was), and he'd already told the customer to expect the engine within a week..... well no more with the backtracking and re-disassembly it was longer than that...…    and this is quite the small town Mom and pop style business.... not "big time" in the least.... but they know what they are doing.


so once I get them back, I will try them again, this guy said he knew exactly what he would have to do to fix them.  and yeah Chris, those heads I got from you went to the machine shop right alongside the EQ's "just in case".....  I used to have a set of the 1st step over stock MP valvesprings that were recommended for what most call the "sausage" cam but they are currently MIA (I have a brand new "sausage" cam here as well in my stash I know exactly where that is)  so worst case I am going to transfer those over to your old heads if these wind up FUBAR'd.....  


and hey... I like classic rock as well as the next guy, this machinist's name ie Neil Young.... that's weird.... Ive talked to him about that before when I had been there..... Im a big time Crosby Stills Nash and Young fan, as well as Neil with crazy horse.....
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 01:07:15 AM by donram360 » Logged
magnumman
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2019, 05:04:35 PM »

Hey Don,  Those parts you left out for me worked perfect.  I don't need the retainer spine or bolts if you want those back.  I hope you found the 30 presents I left behind your grill...
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
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« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2019, 12:44:34 PM »

INTERESTING/  I just searched on Moparts and found a long thread there about sticking valves and ruined engines using these same heads and the thread was dated right around the time I originally assembled this engine.  I posted a "novel" of a history on another Mopar site last nite (a site that I used to spend a lot of time on, but not in a year or so) to ask if anyone else had ever seen or heard of such issues....  but the thread on Moparts was a "dead ringer" for what I experienced.... and within a few weeks of when I encountered it back in 2016...  stories of metal in the pan, ruined cams, ruined engines the whole shebang.....    anyone here have a similar experience with these heads?
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donram360
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« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2019, 12:05:19 PM »

update.... gonna need all 16 guides reamed, all are too tight. at least 1 new valve, plus he wants to re replace the guide seals even though these heads have no more than 3 hours of total run time since taken out of the box.... =guide seals aren't all that much $ overall vs the cost of a "valve job" so I guess....   he says "he won't put used seals back on " even with that little run time"... used is used..... looks like $200+ parts, will have back in 1 to 2 weeks.... he did say that it didn't tear out the guide like the last set of these heads they had. I guess the casting was FUBAR on that one...…  essentially needs to go thru all the motions of a std valve job....
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donram360
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« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2019, 04:21:46 AM »

HELLO THERE anyone out there?
Would sticky valves somehow give the computer reason to hold the injectors open like I was getting just at the end of when I last ran this thing?
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magnumman
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2019, 03:36:56 PM »

HELLO THERE anyone out there?
Would sticky valves somehow give the computer reason to hold the injectors open like I was getting just at the end of when I last ran this thing?

Yes. It could cause the upstream o2 sensors to detect a lean condition which would cause the the fuel output to increase.
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2001 Ram QC 1500: 360cid, 2wd, K+N CAI, SCT tune, Autolite AP3923\'s, MP 1.7 rollers, MP pushrods, SST rims, Hypertech coil, 10.2mm wires, Gibson super truck exhaust, 3\" magnaflow cat, modified Y pipe, modified kegger, 3.92 LSD, MSD-6, Transgo shift kit, 4.7L Injectors, Hipotek 52mm TB, (Currently under construction for a 408 build)

POS Chevy Trailblazer 4x4, the 4x4 is the only good part. This is my Son's truck now.

2007 Chrysler 300 2.7L "Wifes car" No complaints other than it slow.

2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Outdoorsman, 4x4, LSD, Air Bag Suspension.
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